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| Elliot Rodger, Elliot Rodger's Retribution, Peter Rodger, Lichin Rodger, Georgian Rodger |
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/30/elliot-rodger-puahate-forever-alone-reddit-forums
UPDATE: I finished his manifesto. It was very sad and disturbing. Elliot Rodger was an intelligent man who was very mentally ill and miserable with his life. He believed if he looked "cool," wore expensive clothes, was good looking, had a nice car...women should automatically throw themselves at him. He believed if he had sex with a woman, that would mean he would be respectable. He thought being a virgin was the worst thing in the world.
He really wanted to be liked by the "popular" people. For this reason he would mimic what they did and how they dressed. He didn't understand that just having a nice car, clothes, being good looking will not automatically get you laid. You need to have a personality and be able to relate to people. Because of his Asperger's syndrome he was very socially awkward. He did not know how to socialize with people. He was mad that women and popular men didn't want to be his friends. He expected people to just come up to him and offer to be his friend. He never seems to have ever gone up to a woman and asked her out. He talks about being rejected but he wasn't actually rejected because he never asked them out.
It appears his parents really tried to help him. He had been seeing psychiatrists since he was nine. His parents even got him life coaches. I don't think there was anything they could have done to "cure" his mental illness. He needed to be living in a totally supervised environment to protect others and himself. I feel very bad for everyone. This is definitely a tragedy.
UPDATE: He now has a wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Rodger#Perpetrator
He killed three of his roommates. They just removed three dead bodies from where he lived.
A news office just received a 137 pg manifesto written by Elliot Rodger. If you read this, you will understand that he was mentally ill probably since birth. His Asperger's syndrome caused many huge social issues for him. In his mind he thought if he looked and acted "cool," i.e. perfect hair, in shape, expensive clothes, car...girls would instantly flock to him. He intentionally tried to look and act "cool" then felt it was not fair that girls did not flock to him. He was mad at the world because it was not fair. He was not just a spoiled rich kid suffering from "affluenza." This was true mental illness. I think the family really tried to make him happy and well but it just was not possible. Maybe if he lived at home with supervision, this might not have happened.
Here it is as a pdf.
http://marycummins.com/twisted_world.pdf
Here it is as .epub which is a lot easier to read.
http://www.marycummins.com/Elliot_Rodger_My_Twisted_World.epub
Here it is zipped for those of you without readers on your computer
http://marycummins.com/Elliot_Rodger_My_Twisted_World.epub.zip
If anyone has seen the news they will know that 22 year old Elliot Rodger made some videos stating he was going to kill people. Then he went on a killing spree near Santa Barbara in Isla Vista, California. I saw the original video earlier today which has since been removed. There are many copies online though I have a copy.
Seems we have a few friends in common on Facebook. I've always wondered why someone would go and mass murder complete strangers. It was interesting to see a small glimpse into his mind. Still, questions linger. What was his state of mind? Was he in counseling, taking psychotropic drugs? How was his upbringing? Some of these questions have already been answered. Some will never be answered.
Elliot Oliver Robertson Rodger was born in the UK July 21, 1991. His father is Peter A Rodger born April 6, 1965 in Kent, England of British descent. His mother is Lichin "Chin" Rodger nee Ong Li Chin born 1961 in Malaysian of Malaysian descent. His father Peter was an assistant director of "The Hunger Games." His mother was a nurse who used to work on movie sets. Elliot has a full sister Georgia Rodger born 1995. He has a half-brother named Jazz born 2007 to his step mother Soumaya Akaaboune. Soumaya was born in Morocco and is a French actress known for being on French version of "The Real Housewives." Peter Rodger's father is George Rodger acclaimed photographer born 1908 in England, died 1995. His mother is Lois "Jinx" Witherspoon born 1925 and still alive. All of this is in ancestry.com I left this one tree public because journalists asked me to do so. There are birth, death, marriage documents from the UK but I have a free account and can't afford to pay for an International account. I see the records.
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| Elliot Rodger, Peter Rodger, Lichin Rodger, Georgia Rodger, George Rodger, Jinx Rodger |
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| Elliot Roger, Peter Roger, Ong Li Chin, Chin Rodger, mass murderer, sad |
He lived in the UK until he was five. Then his family moved to Beverly Hills, Topanga Canyon, Woodland Hills and Canoga Park. They divorced and Peter Rodger hooked up with the Morrocan French actress and moved to Calabasas.
I see no photos of his mother Lichin with Elliot though I do see pics of her with her daughter Georgia. The daughter is pretty, happy and well adjusted. I see no pics of Georgia with Elliot. I only see one pic of Peter Rodger with Elliot and Jazz.
Elliot did post his photos as a child online. He stated he originally was the shortest kid in his class which bothered him. I saved all his profiles and pics in case they go down. Here are the original links.
Here is his YouTube page. They have removed the main video but the rest are there.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ElliotRodger
His Google+ page
https://plus.google.com/u/0/112420115103149734170/posts
His Facebook page. Update. It's now gone. Peter Rodger and Georgia Rodger also removed their pages. I saved copies of all but I won't post them.
https://www.facebook.com/elliot.rodger.3?fref=ts
The family saw his videos on his YouTube and Google page three weeks. He was talking about how lonely he was. He said he had no friends and girls didn't like him. He said he hated "girls" for not liking him. He hated men for having a better life than him. He stated he would make them "pay" for that. He said he hated everyone.
The family worried about the videos called the police who investigated. Police said he had no history of gun use. Family admitted he was seeing a few therapists. The police could do nothing more. Elliot took down the videos for three weeks then put them back up right before he started his killing spree.
In his pages he takes many selfies on himself in mirrors and driving. He then oddly enough "likes" his own photos and videos. He's not bad looking. If you compare his pics to those when he was a kid, he hasn't had plastic surgery. That is the way he looks. He is Eurasian.
While he talked about being lonely I still wonder what was the final straw on the camels back that he could not take. What set this off? I can only imagine it was rejection by "girls" or friends. Still he seems to like talking about himself and his loneliness. He likes filming himself talking about this.
If you look at his pages, he gets a few "likes." He doesn't get many comments until he kills those people then himself. He probably should have not enabled comments before he died. Then again maybe this is what he wanted. Then yet again he obviously thought of himself in a very different light than the rest of the world. Everyone is calling him a "worthless sack of shit" and far, far worse.It'll be interesting to see the results of the final investigation.
UPDATE: Family said he had Asperger's syndrome, had trouble making friends and was seeing therapists. Based on all I've seen and read I agree. Asperger's is on the autism scale. People with Asperger's are clumsy, have difficulty making eye contact, can't pick up on non-verbal communication cues, can be obsessive, have repetitive behaviors... Elliot had all those problems. The symptoms lessen a little as the person becomes an adult. See link above.
Based on what's I've read he never tried to talk to people, men or women. People did not reject him. He just would not talk or interact with people. This reminds me of the guy who shot up another college. He wrote about not having friends but if people reached out to him, he would reject them. In letters he said he was rejected. Obviously mental illness.
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| Georgia Rodger, Chin Rodger, Elliot Rodger |
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| Elliot Rodger, Peter Rodger, Georgia Rodger |
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| Elliot Rodger fifth grade with dyed hair |
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| Peter Rodger, Jazz Rodger, Elliot Rodger |
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| Elliot Rodger fifth grade Topanga Canyon school fifth grade, smallest kid in class |
Transcript of the video "Elliot Rodger's Retribution.
"Hi, Elliot Rodger here. Well, this is my last video. It all has to come to this. Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day I will have my revenge against humanity, against all of you.
"For the last eight years of my life, since I hit puberty, I've been forced to endure an existence of loneliness, rejection and unfulfilled desires, all because girls have never been attracted to me. Girls gave their affection and sex and love to other men, never to me.
"I'm 22 years old and still a virgin, never even kissed a girl. And through college, 2 1/2 years, more than that actually, I'm still a virgin. It has been very torturous.
"College is the time when everyone experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. In those years I've had to rot in loneliness, it's not fair.
"You girls have never been attracted to me. I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime because I don't know what you don't see in me, I'm the perfect guy and yet you throw yourselves at all these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme gentleman. I will punish all of you for it. [laughs]
"On the day of retribution, I am going to enter the hottest sorority house at UCSB and I will slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up, blond slut I see inside there. All those girls I've desired so much. They have all rejected me and looked down on me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance toward them, while they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes.
"I take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you., You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one, the true alpha male. [laughs] Yes, after I have annihilated every single girl in the sorority house, I'll take to the streets of Isla Vista and slay every single person I see there. All those popular kids who live such lives of hedonistic pleasure while I've had to rot in loneliness all these years. They all look down upon me every time I tried to join them, they've all treated me like a mouse.
"Well, now I will be a god compared to you, you will all be animals, you are animals and I will slaughter you like animals. I'll be a god exacting my retribution on all those who deserve it and you do deserve it just for the crime of living a better life than me.
"The popular kids, you never accepted me and now you will all pay for it. Girls, all I ever wanted was to love you, be loved by you. I wanted a girlfriend. I wanted sex, love, affection, adoration.
"You think I'm unworthy of you. That's I crime I can never get over. If I can't have you girls, I will destroy you. [laughs] You denied me a happy life and in turn I will deny all of you life, it's only fair. I hate all of you.
"Humanity is a disgusting, wretched, depraved species. If I had it in my power I would stop at nothing to reduce every single one of you to mountains of skulls and rivers of blood and rightfully so. You deserve to be annihilated and I will give that to you. You never showed me any mercy so I will show you none. [laughs]
"You forced me to suffer all my life, now I will make you all suffer. I waited a long time for this. I'll give you exactly what you deserve, all of you. All you girls who rejected me, looked down upon me, you know, treated me like scum while you gave yourselves to other men. And all of you men for living a better life than me, all of you sexually active men. I hate you. I hate all of you. I can't wait to give you exactly what you deserve, annihilation."
Mary Cummins of Animal Advocates is a wildlife rehabilitator licensed by the California Department of Fish and Game. Mary Cummins is also a licensed real estate appraiser in Los Angeles, California.
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Thank you for taking the time to pull together the family tree. I believe this is an extremely important component to understanding what happened here, and yes the pictures are very telling.
ReplyDeleteI believe he had issues since birth. Maybe it was because he was a small baby. In his manifesto he states his mom was taking medication which interfered with her birth control. Maybe that caused some in utero defect. The rest of the family is very nice, sane and happy. We have some friends in common. I hope one day they can cure mental illness. This was so tragic for everyone.
ReplyDeleteHe was likely premature. In his manifesto he states that he was 5.4 lbs at birth. If so, he may have suffered from concomitant developmental delays.
DeleteHe was likely premature. In his manifesto he states that he was 5.4 lbs at birth. If so, he may have suffered from concomitant developmental delays.
DeleteI agree that the possibility exists that he had issues since birth. His family members have always said he had issues since birth. Reading his manifesto he admits he had issues since he was a kid.
DeleteHis manifesto is absolutely chilling to read. The most cringeworthy parts had to do with killing his younger brother and possibly his father. He was no doubt disturbed, but also evil. To laugh and celebrate these thoughts and plans can't simply be excused as mental illness.
ReplyDelete...But it can and should be excused as mental illness; that's exactly what mental illness is. It's about NOT simply casting these types of people aside and out of society and labeling them as monsters and instead trying to bridge the gap between how "normal" people function in a modern society, and how they fail to do so themselves. I understand that's it's difficult to admit, but attributing this to "evil" assures that it will continue to happen because we aren't looking at people like Rodger as human beings, and attempting to figure out what when wrong.
DeleteYou've sidestepped the issue. He was well aware that what he was doing was wrong. The fact that he was concerned that the police would uncover his sinister plans, tells me all I need to know. He was a sociopath, and I'm not sure if anything, save institutionalization, would have helped him.
Deletewhy is his racism being ignored His obnoxious comments about blacks, latinos, even Asians and his bragging of being Brit Royalty etc. from his manisfesto!!
ReplyDeleteHe most certainly was racist. He thought whites were superior to blacks, latinos and asians. I just think racism was the least of his problems.
DeleteEvery one has some problems but he had so many and at such high levels; CONFUSION: A narcissistic person can also have low self esteem and think of himself with big ego yet at the same time put himself down as being short etc.
ReplyDeleteIn his manifesto one second he says "I'm magnificent, a refined gentleman, intelligent, good looking." Next second he says "I'm short, weak, not good at anything, weird, no one likes me." He was also OCD as a child folding and refolding his clothes. For a while he went to a school for troubled kids.
DeleteHard to believe you read his manifesto and are happy to cop out with Asperger's Syndrome. Quote: Mother always got me what I wanted, right when I wanted it. At mother's house, all of my needs were met with EXCELLENT PRECISION, whereas at my father's house, there would always be a time delay because father and Soumaya had less time for me, and paid less attention to me. Unquote. (page 20) Note: the fact he wasn't denied what he wanted at his father's house, it just didn't happen as quick as he wanted. Read also, what Elliot had to say about the end of both 5th and 6th grade. He was a happy kid with plenty of friends. By the end of 8th grade; "I was extremely unpopular, widely disliked, and viewed as the weirdest kid in the school. I had to act weird TO GAIN ATTENTION. I was tired of being the invisible shy kid. (page 42) I think a further reading or two may be in order if you wish to seriously post on this subject. Last add; try www.behaviorconsultant.com for an understanding of Asperger's.
ReplyDeleteRead up on Asperger's. I know someone who has a child with it. They lie, act, manipulate to get what they want. They have huge mood swings. One minute they are very happy, next minute they want to kill everyone and themselves.
DeleteKeep in mind this is Elliot's manifesto. It is not reality. He said people rejected him when he actually rejected them.
In his video which he made all alone he looks into the camera trying to look, act and sound cool. In real life he did not look people in the eye. He could barely uttered a few words to people.
I'm not saying he is innocent. He is guilty of murder and assault. What he did was very wrong. He was an intelligent and highly functional person who was mentally ill.
No one uses their mothers real maiden name as a security question because that info is public. I've never used my mothers real maiden name
DeleteI have Asperger Syndrome, and I can tell you that Elliot Rodger displays almost every criteria for the diagnosis. Social difficulties and difficulty with nonverbal communication were his biggest problems. We can tell from his manifesto that he suffered from social anguish, engaged in inflexible routines and had a social skills councelor provided by his mother. One of his neighbors described him as having difficulty making eye contact and when attempting to socialize with Elliot, he refused to speak (classic case of selective mutism, which is very common among aspies).
DeleteI do too. And I relate to Elliot. One thing that struck me: it seems that I always want the opposite of what I have and as a girl I behaved more like a man, sexually assertive...men didnt like it and i had to learn how society works, that's "not how girls behave' and it's no use saying "it shouldnt be like that" it just is. Its hard for us, because we see things with iron logic and a lot of what ordinary people do seems so baffling. And it seems to me, Elliot acted like a girl. Wearing nice clothes. looking nice, putting himself publicly on display and waiting to be hit on: many commenters have pointed out that if he'd been female, that's what would have happened. He was emotional, openly, as girls can be, without the repression of emotion required of men. I am not saying any of this rigidly gendered behaviour is desirable, just that society has rules to make sense of the world and Elliot broke the rules as Aspies do. Mainly because we dont know them, because we arent wired to absorb them.
DeleteHaving said this, Mary, dont dismiss Aspreger's as a 'problem'. There are a lot of advantages. We never join in mob behaviour. Never follow the herd. We are able to stand clear when everyone starts doing idiot things like running up a housing bubble for example. We carre nothing about status symbols, except as a means to an end. You'd never find an Aspie killing themselves because they lost their Wall Street job.
I tend to think, though, that Ellliot had other problems, or, more likely, his Asperger's was made worse by
early influences. The apparent waiting on him, by his mother, yet at the same time she left him to play World of Warcraft 16 hours a day. She doesnt seem to have liked him much. He says she wanted to get rid of him. Its like she just gave him what he wanted and no love...possible autism herself.
HOPEFULLY THIS WILL pass and pray not happen too frequently I read about the kid in New Town and guess like many this started with Columbine. In fact a local church @ that time held a prayer/healing session and it was very good. My siblings are all physicians and one is a psychiatrist without the shingle. He will be visiting me soon & I will be lazy & pick his brain.
ReplyDeleteI am on my local paper vcstar.com blog and the folks there just fight & write completely stupid things. You may have fewer people but good quality? I never comment on the big sites because there are hundreds of comments and who reads 'em?
Everyone has a strong opinion about this horrible tragedy. Some say he was crazy. Others say he was just evil. Some say he was gay. Others say he was a racist misogynist. Maybe he is all of these things.
DeleteYup agree except where does the gay come from a guy crazy about girls, unless his diary is not truthful; I did not see a hint of any attraction towards his few buddies. I remember 72? a Dem VP was nominated & quickly withdrawn as he in the past had sat on a coach. Shame in having ANY mental issues, esecially for us macho men, those in authority.
DeleteWhy is the commenting procedure on this site so convoluted and difficult?
ReplyDeleteHe was a Lanza. Lanzas and guns don't mix. Amazing after he went to therapy for being a nutcase since he was 9, that he could get 3 guns.... Got to wonder how many such losers are running around out there.
ReplyDeleteNotice the glass of wine in his hand? He looks like he is maybe 12 years old. Perhaps in some countries kids can drink, with adults, but not here in the usa. He looks out of it and at that age, that's a sign!
ReplyDeleteHe is a small person. The pic of him with a wine glass is only a couple of years old. If you read his manifesto, he would drink to try to reduce his inhibitions around people.
DeleteI think most people drink to reduce their inhibitions. I read and at a young age he would ask mom for sips of wine. Although he looks 12 he might be 15 in that pic. Still concerning to see a preteen-teen with alcohal and his glazed over, almost sedated looking eyes. Sad and tragic all around.
ReplyDeleteNarcissistic Personality Disorder, Psychopathic and Schizoidal...
ReplyDeleteNarcissistic personality disorder, psychopathic and schizoidal...
ReplyDeleteThe truth is more complicated.
ReplyDeletehttp://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/university-of-california-killings.html
http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/elliot-rodger-sex-slave.html
he was perfectly sane. no mental problem at all. he was mocked, bullied, rejected all his life, so he decided that he wanted to give the world a lesson. the fact that the majority of us would never consider it doesn't make it crazy. he took a lucid decision, and i think it's very arrogant of us to judge him, given that we didn't experiment not even an ounce of the pain he endured all his life.
ReplyDeleteI believe you've done one of the fairest, and most honest accounts of why the Isla Vista shootings happened. People can fling out labels they don't even understand but this kid was ill with Aspergers and couldn't deal his diagnosis, which he conveniently doesn't discuss in his biography, or cooperated with a treatment plan. I don't think people understand that he never really spoke out loud to anyone other than his family, and with them it was more about getting what he wanted, manipulation of his mother and anger that his father wouldn't give him everything he wanted in life. He rarely spoke, mostly just answered questions with the fewest words possible. How would anyone, parents and therapists even know how dire a situation is when the person never shares his inner life? What you see is a physically small, emotionally stunted man, offered help for years but unable or unwilling to see that the biggest problem in his life, the reason he failed socially was actually him. Elliot was the elephant in the room, and he was never able to see that. He looked like a high school kid in college, most people at his JC probably thought he was a high school kid taking extra math classes or something, but for some reason he never connected with his inability to speak to anyone, his absolute fear of other humans that he wasn't being rejected but in fact he was rejecting even offers of friendship because the people offering weren't "cool" enough. Another thing I noticed is his naming of thing, but with no imagination, a round house called roundhouse, a big rock he names "big rock". He was a classic aspies, and while they act out, it is odd that two of them would become mass killers, I don't think it anything more than a sad coincidence. Like saying you are more likely to kill if you have brown eyes, because more brown eyed people are in prison for killing. Link, not really.
ReplyDeleteI think you have really gotten it right, you understand something most people who don't grow up in that area, you understand his environment, the social milieu he was raised in, I'm from the same area and very few articles written, even from the major news outlets understand how that played a part in how he behaved. His father worked in Hollywood, meaning it was chicken or feathers depending on your projects success. Not rich but comfortable, and probably like a lot of people over extended. One or two word labels are really ever going to give a satisfying answers. What this horrible incident tells me is we need a national database that allows the parents and therapists to put a mentally challenged person on a no gun buy list, similar to a felon not being able to pass a gun application. Obviously this would not have stopped Newtown, because the mother actively bought her very ill son guns, but it would have been something I think Rodgers parents would have taken advantage of such a list and so would his therapists.
Thank you again for doing the research and you analysis of the Isla Vista shooting, and the shooter, while compassionate you know he had multiple problems, that his parents did care, but did not even know their own child, which has to be horrifying for them to realize that a lions share of resources went to one child who would end up being so sick and awful as a human being, he was an awful person, he was also incredibly boring and self obsessed, none of these things made him likely to ever make friends or get "sex" he thought he so richly deserved. You have shown great insight into the real Elliot Roger, not the labels.
Also, thank you so much for all the animal rescue you do, you are a true hero!
I noticed that, the naming of things as just what they were.
DeleteBut you see, once you know you have this disorder you can put the focus it gives you into learning about it and studying how to overcome it And then I really believe your brain starts building the connections it didnt build naturally. So with luck , you can retain your Asperger's advantages. and learn to be normal too. Hardly anyone clocks me for it now. And the naming of things, you can then learn how to be more reative using the intensely visual ability of an Aspie. What Aspie kids definietely do not need is any of this modern self-esteem education which tells you you are fine as you are. You aren't. And that is subjecting those kids to a lifetime of misery, as, like elliot, they believe they are 'magnificent' yet at the same time, know they arent. And so cant cope.
I agree that there are many good comments and posts; my problem with the media is that they do so much coverage when hot then drop the story and there is no analysis; It is going from fire to fire. I copied , posted 59 stories for the researcher?? I do not have people who comment!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1321311241700037109#allposts
Elliot Rodger is by no means Eurasian. He looks nothing like Peter and LiChin Rodger and looks exactly like his alleged stepmother, Soumaya Akaaboune. On the other hand, Georgia the full sister looks very Eurasian and resembles LiChin. But Jazz, the supposed half-brother, who supposedly shares a father with Elliot rather than a mother, looks very much like young Elliot...neither of whom like like their father. I am not buying the official story. Just start comparing photos of Elliot and Soumaya. She is very clearly his real parent.
ReplyDeleteYou are more likely to look like your same sex parent. That is why Georgia looks more Chinese because her mother Li is Chinese. Elliot looks more like the father because same sex genes are stronger. Elliot does look Eurasian to me though he looks more English than his sister. Peter did not meet Soumaya until years after Elliot was born. Elliot definitely came out of Li based on his birth certificate.
DeleteI'm still laughing about same-sex genes being "stronger". Apparently, you've never studied basic genetics.
DeleteScarlet, you are a totally new user account which is anonymous with no photo, bio, resume, verification. I don't even understand why you're here. Who cares what Elliot looks like or who his bio mom is. He's dead, so are six others. Nothing can change that.
DeleteElliot looks nothing at all like Peter Rodger, and your assumption about same-sex parents is incorrect. I have no doubts that Soumaya Akkaboune is the real mother. Birth certificates can be faked. Comparison photos are out there, but I can't seem to share an example here.
ReplyDeleteSoumaya didn't even meet Peter until years after Elliot was born. Jazz looks like Soumaya and Peter. Jazz is bigger, more muscular, stronger, more outgoing than Elliot.
DeleteI studied genetics at USC. If Jazz and Elliot look a little similar it's because they're both boys with the same father with mothers with darker eyes and skin. Notice Elliot is smaller and thinner like his mother. Believe what you like.
Elliot looks like his mother Lichin. Your presumptions are from conspiracist theory websites. So then who is Georgia's mother?
DeleteI found reading his manifesto/bio pretty eye opening, but I think Elliot's parents should've done some things very differently. I've read that his parents got him into therapy around age 9, but I'm not sure when he was diagnosed with Asperger's.
ReplyDeleteHis parents knew he was being bullied in school, was socially awkward and painfully shy. Did they really think moving so often (both parents!) and always being the "new kid" in yet another new school would help? For someone like Elliot, who was so desperate to fit-in with the cool kids... this had to be a nightmare. Also, children aren't born being rabidly racist or expecting the kind of affluence/wealth that Elliot thought he deserved. It was learned. It just seems like his parents would rather throw money at his problems, rather than work them out in family therapy - his father was always traveling for work, and his mother worked as well as having a very active social life of her own.
In his manifesto he wrote about having a meltdown in front of his father, when they were having lunch and he saw an interracial couple which sent him into a rage. He was ashamed that his father had witnessed him lose control. Why didn't this event trigger some alarm bells in his father?! His mother had witnessed his frequent crying meltdowns, even as a late teen. Did she think this normal? His parents rarely laid down any kind of restrictions or boundaries for him to follow. Soumaya did and he hated her for it. There was no follow-up on whether he was taking his medications that were prescribed or even if he saw the same Dr. again. They left it up to Elliot.
This is why they didn't see this coming. They really didn't know him. I don't in any way think his parents deserve the kind of pain that they are now in - his sister and half-brother seem to be doing well in their care. Maybe they just didn't know how to help him.
It's easy to look back on things with 20/20 hindsight and see the signs. I think the mom really tried arranging play dates, counselors, life coaches... He seemed to be somewhat okay until puberty then he really went off the deep end when he left his parents' homes. He needed daily supervision, a schedule. He stopped taking his meds, started joining odd online clubs, went down some dark paths.
DeleteThe parents treated the daughter differently. She had a job at Vans retail store. She had friends and no real problems. The daughter seems to have been a good girl, same parents, same parenting, different kid.
My Nana raised me and my sis the same way. We have half sisters. My sister has always had issues since birth. She went down a dark path but may be back on the straight and narrow by now. I don't know.
Mom called the cops on her son. She knew something was wrong. Elliot was legally an adult and could show a sane side temporarily. I hate to say this but the only way the parents could have prevented this is if they killed their son Elliot. He was sane enough to not be locked up for a 5150. Parents could not get him institutionalized legally. A sad situation for all.
I don't think Peter and Li raised their son as a racist. I think he saw it around him. He may have also made some of it up. He thought people didn't like him because he looked Asian when that was not the case. He never approached people so he was never rebuffed.
I had a friend who thought women didn't like him because he was too "pretty." They didn't like him because he was a jerk. Perception, reality, two very different things.
You've made a lot of valid points, which helps me understand this a little better, so thank you. I don't know whether you had a chance to check out Georgia's Facebook page before it got taken down, but she was pretty wild as far as drinking/smoking pot, flashing gang signs, etc. Lots of party pix, but she also had many friends, girls as well as guys. To be honest, I was pretty much the same way in high school... wanting to experiment, be independent and rushing to get to adulthood (like a fool!)
DeleteInterestingly, Adam Lanza was also diagnosed with Asperger's or as a High-Functioning Autistic, like Elliot. I read a recent study, which I'll link to when I find it again, where they're studying the possible connection between HFA's and mass shootings. They hypothesized that the severe bullying and inability to make friends that they both experienced, along with the onset of puberty, could create severe rage issues. Due to the difficulty they have in expressing themselves socially and emotionally, they think the anger and rage just builds up without them having any outlet in which to release it. At this point, it's speculation, but it's an interesting theory.
I think it's odd that Elliot only wanted white, blonde-haired, blue eyed model types (while hating on blacks, Hispanics and Asians), even though he was half-Chinese himself! Still, he felt no cultural connection to his two Chinese roommates (and friend) that he outright hated enough to butcher. *smh*
He was so terrified of women, of being rejected and humiliated by them, that I wonder if he didn't unintentionally focus on the kind of women he knew wouldn't give him a second look... that way there was no chance of actual confrontation, rejection or humiliation, and he could place all the blame onto them. Misogynist to the bone!
Why did he want blondes? Because the Asperger's mind (like my own) works in a way that is actually very logical. If you cannot naturally absorb the rules and the cues that makes a society function, if people do not explain them step-by-step (but instead say vague things like 'just be yourself. Just have faith. Just be positive' and so on), then all you can do to try and make sense of an overwhelming world (which is also thousands of times more sensitive for you) is to try and study what the "NT's" (Neuro-typical, or non-aspie) respond to.
DeleteAnd everywhere, you see desirable commodities advertised by blondes, slim and slender blondes. You see Barbie. You see things about Mean girls and alpha girls and you learn that this is the most desirable.
Elliot would have been completely unable to form any idea of his own regarding this. He didnt know if he liked blondes or not. All he knew was he, logically, wanted to do materialistically better because his society informed him that materialism equalled happiness, so therefore blonde must be most beautiful, most beautiful must equal happiness. It is logical.
A good example of the Aspie mindset is envy. Elliot said he was avery enviuos person. But to an Aspie, envy is logical. If someone else is better off than you, therefore, its logical to want what they have: looks, friends, whatever. Not for status. But because it seems that's...its hard to explain.
Anyway, all it takes, is to explain to the Aspie that in fact, it is not logical to be envious, because it is not productive, plus, what you are envying isnt even real. And that is that. No more envy.
Elliot wrote about how easy it would be to cut his roommates throats while they slept. Given his size, against 3 men fighting for their lives... I think doing the deed, while they slept, was the only way he could've managed this.
ReplyDeleteAs for not killing his half-brother and stepmother, I'm guessing he figured out that once he started killing, either in IV or WH, it wouldn't take long before the police were onto him, so he had to choose. The students in IV were the real target of his hate and he hoped he could kill more people than just his 2 family members.
I agree that he probably drugged his three roommates then killed them. I also agree that the logistics or going to WH to kill his step mom and brother then driving all the way back to IV to kill more people would have been very difficult. They had an alarm system at his dad's house. He would have been caught before he could get to IV. His main rage was against the students anyway. Such a tragedy.
ReplyDeleteIt is just a guess now. Why he changed his mind alarm should not have been a problem& unless dad or some one came would not be discovered. Any way he was not rationAl as is our thinking. WhAt about becoming millionaire winning Lotto Going Az. 4 times to buy tickets Thank God they did not let him into Sorority!! happy 4 th July!!
ReplyDeleteFYI I got 3 messages by email just now but I do not see them here.
ReplyDeletetrue he was under weight and had developmental issues; but are they NOT compounded when additional trauma exists like shuttlig between 2 homes, 2 moms and seems like NO religion or religious values to speak of.
May be we need to snoope more on our chidren, especially when we know there are deep issues; he did not take classes for 6-7 semesters yet he was taken care of as a student; what was he doing the 18 hrs a day, besides sitting in the library pretending to be a student?
I hope some body writes a book about his life. What about dad photographing "Cheeks" Was he involved in more heavier stuff??
There are two replies way above your reply. They were replying to the first comment, see above. I think Elliot had many issues. Some were probably from nature, some from nurture. Keep in mind sis had same upbringing and she turned out normal.
DeletePeter the father is a photographer. So was Peter's dad. Peter worked on films later.
Elliot attended some online classes. He didn't go to the physical class room last year of school at least. He stayed in his room. Staying in his room by himself probably made matters worse. I bet someone will write a book.
You might be surprised about Aspies. I was harassed online by an Aspie man for weeks on end. It only ended when I searched through FB to find his mother and then contacted her. Normally I wouldn't "rat" somebody out to their mother, but it was either that or get authorities involved.
ReplyDeleteReligion is not necessary to know the difference between right and wrong. Morality exists in society quite apart from religion. I'm a perfect example. As an atheist I've never been in a church except for weddings and funerals, and while I'm amoral, I'm hardly immoral. Understand the difference.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't go to Algeria either. He went to Morocco.
ReplyDeleteReligion is SUPPOSSED to tame people, though as we see it often has the opposite effect. My point in his case case viz the major religions, he had no thoughts about life after death, a punishment for his nefarious acts and also thinking of woman as mere sex objects for mens satisfaction. We do not know IF the parents on their own like you seem to, instilled any values in him. The psyches generally are humanists too. In his coach talks was it ever discussed that you love a woman for who she is and not for what she is??
ReplyDeleteIt is just a thought and it has not been addressed like his stupidity of becoming millionaire via Lotto, that too driving to AZ!
Please understand that I mean you no offfense whatsoever, but is religion the only thing taming you? If you had no religion, would you have been an Elliot Rodger? And there are few greater examples in the US of woman being used as sex objects than with the GOP party itself, most of whom as I understand it, present themselves as Christians.
ReplyDeleteWell I don't know what happened to my other comment, perhaps I missed one of the eleventy million steps required to post. In the even that it shows up I apologize for duplicate posts. But with respect to your comment about religion, would you say that without religion, you would be another Elliot Rodger? I mean no disrespect whatsoever when I propose that either.
ReplyDeleteThe Christian right in the US is a very good example of large numbers of people thinking that women are merely sex objects. Control of reproduction is seen as being of greater importance that gun control, IMO.
Elliot's driving to AZ so many times was, IMO, just another one of his OCD quirks, like wearing the same clothes everyday. As was his fixation on blonde girls, perhaps another Aspie trait. He accused women of responding to their primal instincts while he objectified them in a similar fashion, not that he could be rational about this though.
Well I don't know what happened to my other comment, perhaps I missed one of the eleventy million steps required to post. In the even that it shows up I apologize for duplicate posts. But with respect to your comment about religion, would you say that without religion, you would be another Elliot Rodger? I mean no disrespect whatsoever when I propose that either.
ReplyDeleteThe Christian right in the US is a very good example of large numbers of people thinking that women are merely sex objects. Control of reproduction is seen as being of greater importance that gun control, IMO.
Well I don't know what happened to my other comment, perhaps I missed one of the eleventy million steps required to post. In the even that it shows up I apologize for duplicate posts. But with respect to your comment about religion, would you say that without religion, you would be another Elliot Rodger? I mean no disrespect whatsoever when I propose that either.
The Christian right in the US is a very good example of large numbers of people thinking that women are merely sex objects. Control of reproduction is seen as being of greater importance that gun control, IMO.
Well I don't know what happened to my other comment, perhaps I missed one of the eleventy million steps required to post. In the even that it shows up I apologize for duplicate posts. This will probably be last last response because I don't have time to mess with Blogger's anal verification procedures.
ReplyDeleteBut with respect to your comment about religion, would you say that without religion, you would be another Elliot Rodger? I mean no disrespect whatsoever when I propose that either.
The Christian right in the US is a very good example of large numbers of people thinking that women are merely sex objects. Control of reproduction is seen as being of greater importance that gun control, IMO.
Well I don't know what happened to my other comment, perhaps I missed one of the eleventy million steps required to post. In the even that it shows up I apologize for duplicate posts. But with respect to your comment about religion, would you say that without religion, you would be another Elliot Rodger? I mean no disrespect whatsoever when I propose that either.
The Christian right in the US is a very good example of large numbers of people thinking that women are merely sex objects. Control of reproduction is seen as being of greater importance that gun control, IMO.
Well I don't know what happened to my other comment, perhaps I missed one of the eleventy million steps required to post. In the even that it shows up I apologize for duplicate posts. This will probably be last last response because I don't have time to mess with Blogspot's anal verification procedures.
ReplyDeleteBut with respect to your comment about religion, would you say that without religion, you would be another Elliot Rodger? I mean no disrespect whatsoever when I propose that either.
The Christian right in the US is a very good example of large numbers of people thinking that women are merely sex objects. Control of reproduction is seen as being of greater importance that gun control, IMO.
Well I don't know what happened to my other comment, perhaps I missed one of the eleventy million steps required to post. In the even that it shows up I apologize for duplicate posts. But with respect to your comment about religion, would you say that without religion, you would be another Elliot Rodger? I mean no disrespect whatsoever when I propose that either.
The Christian right in the US is a very good example of large numbers of people thinking that women are merely sex objects. Control of reproduction is seen as being of greater importance that gun control, IMO.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteComments are moderated because there were a ton of spam posts and nasty revolting disgusting posts threatening to kill Elliot's family. I generally approve posts within half an hour.
ReplyDeleteMary, moderation is the norm of course, but I have to put in two Captchas that aren't even real words, and sign off on passing authentication from Wordpress twice. Then my comment would disappear without knowing whether it was posted or not. I'm now trying to respond with my Google account, which seems to be easier.
DeleteYou only have to do one captcha. Your comment never disappeared. You saw a message that said "your comment will appear as soon as it is approved." I have to moderate because people who posting death threats against Elliot's family. I know him and live nearby. His mom and dad are nice people. Something was wrong with Elliot since birth.
DeleteMary: I didn't realize that you actually knew Elliot or his family. I know I said some harsh things about his parents in my first comment, but I can now see that they went above and beyond to get him help.
DeleteHis father made a comment about how Elliot was such a good liar, when he didn't think Elliot even knew HOW to lie. It seems he was very devious and probably never showed his therapists the "real" Elliot. I also think he was born this way, and puberty only ramped-up his growing hate of everyone.
Since you knew him, maybe you can clarify something for me. People that have been interviewed, who also knew him, have said that he'd never make eye contact, and gave one-word answers when asked a question, etc. But most have only seen his videos, where he "appears" to be almost normal, while looking directly into the camera. Was he ever like the latter when actually around people?
I knew his dad in passing. We had some friends in common, go to the same places. I never met Elliot. Based on what his family and others close to him said the Elliot in the videos is not the real Elliot. That Elliot is totally fake, even the voice is fake. In public with strangers he wouldn't make eye contact or talk. He never asked a girl out.
DeleteI find that fascinating and curious. He wrote in his Manifesto of having some arguments with Addison in particular. I wonder how he communicated during those times? How is it possible to argue without putting thoughts into words and sentences? His elocution in the videos is quite elaborate at times - he pronounces his words carefully and yes, he seems normal and has a sense of humor that implies that he is aware of comedic timing and references.
DeleteIn the videos, he doesnt have to talk to a person. Its so hard for us to interpret the human face and double so if you are talking to a woman. Never know if what you say will offend a woman. Never know what they are thinking. They say one thing and mean another and then angrily claim they dont. They often make eye contact, like eye-rolling, with other women, I cant stand that at all. Men are far simpler. And funnily enough, men often say that I am "an easy woman to talk to".
DeleteSo talking to a camera, you can be totally relaxed. It doesnt judge or do inexplicable things.
Mary, THANKS again for providing a nice open forum. I did not realize that the moderation was new. Guess you picked a hot button top with Elliott. You are quick to approve, more than many PAID orgs which take 4-6 hrs to approve, especially on timely news topics.
ReplyDeleteI have 2 Tumbler accounts and to Blog accounts; read by 200-300 people daily per stats but almost ZERO comments AND most of my friends don't go to 'em!!
How about expanding to other topics, (current)??
I do not know how many seem to be active.
I just got here by chance and now realize that I am using my full real name; but it should not mean much to most except my wife, mother, buddies etc.
ReplyDeleteHeather, I do not understand how you so quickly jump to the conclusion that I would be another Elliot. It is true that I raised the issue of the perceived (as we have limited, distorted insight into family so far) lack of religion in the Rodgers lives, It was just an issue, like I have mentioned the crazy goal of him becoming a millionaire (the ONLY way possible per Elliott).
My only thought about humanists or even Unitarians is that there are already so many religions, each advocating its own values, norms etc. which are like roads travelled; without religion it would be like driving, or even on horse back not even using a trail, but your hunches and going the way YOU think is right or best?
Regarding linking the Christian right to my comment, which should be obvious that I am NOT a Christian. In fact I am utterly disgusted by the misuse for Misogyny my clergy and people. These are complex issues that require thought and may be beyond a blog or analysing the Rodgers unless as I have asked for; a book is written and they are interviewed.
God (Creator) Bless you!!
I assume that you or anyone else of a religious persuasion would become another Elliot merely because your thought process seemed to be that if he only had religion, he would not have committed any crimes. I was not comparing you to Christians.
DeleteIqbal: I realize that people who are brought up with and without religion have very different outlooks on life. But when you say things like:
Delete"...without religion it would be like driving, or even on horse back not even using a trail, but your hunches and going the way YOU think is right or best?"
It's extremely offensive to those of us who are agnostic or atheist, and don't feel as you do about organized religion. I certainly don't feel as if I'm wandering the earth lost without any navigation skills! I have a brain and a heart... and I don't need to believe in a mythical heaven or hell to do what's right in life. I know you probably didn't intend to come off that way, so no hard feelings.
There seems to be an influx of "Christians" who identify as Conservative/Tea Baggers (in the US) currently trying to infect state and federal laws with Christianity ~ even though there's supposed to be a separation of church and state, while completely disregarding the many other religions of US citizens and atheists/agnostics. It's offensive as well as intolerant.
The more I read about Elliot Rodger, the more it seems like he was an evil psychopath, that no amount of therapy OR religion could've helped.
I cannot believe how one can read so much into a few lines written here. Again Elliott's PRIMARY problem was physiological; psychiatric. In fact we should not blame such individuals for their behavior as life has been cruel to them and they have not been dealt normal cards like all of us including his 2 siblings.
ReplyDeleteAll I ask, all reading is what effect if any a religious upbringing may have had on his thinking, if any. I beg to say that if he believed in right or wrong, in being told of the worth of all humans including women, who were not there for his own gratifications, just may be he would have been a better person. Violent video games add to the ugly mix of degrading life.
The manifesto & the 64 articles on him show no light if his family exposed him to ANY VALUES!!
Regarding the Christian comment, I think it is safe to assume that since I brought up religion, may be from a conservative point of view? that the line would be drawn towards Christianity as it is by far the biggest religion here.
Cheers, God Bless!!
Elliot had deep seated psychiatric issues. He was different since birth. I'm pretty sure it was genetic or congenital though I think it was probably more congenital. He was a premie. There is direct correlation between premies/birth trauma and severe mental illness. Most schizophrenics have birth trauma, i.e. not enough oxygen during delivery. I don't think religion would have helped Elliot. Violent misogynist video games made things worse. So did the misogynist groups he joined. Sad situation for all.
DeleteYou have to remember that the Manifesto is written from Elliot's perspective and not a factual accounting of his parents' interactions with him. And clearly from watching Peter on the Barbara Walters episode you can see he was appalled by Eliot's racism and weird ideas about women. There is much evidence that some of Peter's friends reached out to Elliot to give him guidance on behaving around women but he rejected it and thought that women should compliment him instead of the other way around. I think Peter displayed good values towards his family as he was present in his children's lives as much as possible and seems to have been consistent with child support, which to me demonstrates a good value system. Also, they supported Elliot in college and his mother was very devoted to him.
DeleteSo the whole list is inclusive EXCEPT religion. In fact this is an issue I have with modern psychiatry as it fails to put the cart before the house. What is the difference between humans and animals? What makes us civilized? Having a value system will make us behave differently??
ReplyDeleteI do not know much about the "Hunger games" , would like to know more; busy so have not read. Also dad's infatuation with "cheeks" 2nd wife comes from a muslim family? Khatigah (relative in Morocco) is a muslim name, but this mother too gave up on her religion??
Sad that the media just drops the ball and this is OLD news that needs to light of day.
Khadijah. And you may have to give up your presumptions about the lack of religion in Elliot's life as being causal (I see it as a recurring theme). We know that it does not prevent crimes from being committed, since we know that approximately 2/3 of all convicts in the US are from the bible-belt and self-identify as christian. We are civilized because we have CULTURE which is what animals do not possess.
DeleteWhere are people getting that his sister was wild, and throwing gang signs? I saw her face book page and there was nothing of the sort on there, she's a young woman who did everything right. She went to regular school, had lots of friends, got a job and never did anything to get arrested or break the law. Please, don't make comments about things you can't prove about a young woman who didn't do anything but show kindness to her unbelievably broken brother. His sister never resented he was given anything and everything in order to make Elliot better or happier, which apparently was almost impossible. She seems like a person who grew up with a very mentally ill sibling and showed him nothing but love and compassion. As for religion, billions of people don't care about it, and when mentally ill people are introduced to religious ideologies they generally are even crazier. Religion has zero to do with mental illness, you can't pray it away with any religion so bringing it up is simply stupid and ignorant. The victims were of all faiths and God didn't save them, did he? This is about a sick young man, obsessed with having sex with anyone who he deemed blonde and pretty. He actually didn't care about any person, their likes, dislikes or interests, he wasn't able to look at other people like that, because he was mentally ill. No one was going to sleep with him, he knew this too on some level. He knew that he wasn't going to meet someone have a relationship, get a job and marry, have kids. He knew that wasn't going to happen. He simply was so jealous and envious he wanted to hurt as many people as he could who did have futures so he could make himself feel better even for that last 10 minutes -- letting the hatred and evil reign free until, as he planned HE took his own life. That's sick, and that is the road Elliot took, by reading and seeing the videos we see the whole thing come together wordlessly. I also believe some of the odder comments were for his family, things only they will understand, to twist the knife a little bit more to hurt them. For them to feel more pain that was just for them. He was so sick and his mother knew it, his father just was tired of him and wished he'd just grow up and get better. Neither on the same page never getting anywhere. I'll always wonder why they didn't leverage the apartment in Santa Barbara and the car to comply with the medication. But then I suppose they will be asking themselves that question for the rest of their lives.
ReplyDeleteI don't know whether Elliot's sister was "wild" nor not, but her former Facebook page contained a few pics of her smoking pot. And Elliot's assessment of her boyfriend seemed right on, since I checked his Twitter feed (now protected) and it was full of derogatory remarks about other races. We know that Elliot also made racist taunts, but perhaps no one here has seen his nerd trash-talk on Youtube under his alter ego "Valtharion." I read all the comments, and exchanges and was quite shocked. Getting past the gamer trash-talk, Elliot was a notorious troll who taunted people over animal cruelty videos, and laughed at the prospect of "squishing a newborn puppy's head between his hand." He also proclaimed that wartime brothels were a good idea no matter how the women were acquired to work in them. It's also worth noting that he posted on Youtube videos for Cho, the Aurora killer, and about the Columbine killers. A would-be spree killer posting on mass-murderers sites....
DeleteI had a fair bit of sympathy for him after reading his Manifesto and watching the videos, but much of that evaporated when I read his Youtube commentary, where he peppered various sites accusing men of lying and girls of being sluts and whores. I think he was beyond redemption even if he met a nice girl - his head was poisoned by the PUAHate and similar groups. His hatred for women and couples was probably not fixable.
I also disagree with assessments that Elliot was schizoid. A schizophrenic would not be able to write out a lucid manifesto nor would they be able to plan an attack over several months. It's only my opinion, but I saw Elliot as suffering from personality disorders that caused him to have poor insight - narcissistic, OCD, social, etc. I originally thought he was an aspie but now I'm unsure, because aspies generally are unaware of most of the social structures that Elliot commented on in his Manifesto.
Heather: Elliot seems to qualify for many disorders. I don't think he was schizo either, but he was narcissistic to nth degree! I do believe he was a high-functioning Autistic/Asperger's, though, just from what I read at WebMD, which Mary linked to. One of the things that caught my eye...
DeleteUnlike people with other forms of autism, people with high-functioning autism or Asperger's syndrome want to be involved with others. They simply don't know how to go about it. They may not be able to understand others' emotions. They may not read facial expressions or body language well. As a result, they may be teased and often feel like social outcasts.
It's sad really. I experienced bullying in elementary school and children can be very cruel, but it seemed the ones who came from wealthy families had a special gift for being extremely cruel. You would think the opposite would be true, but I know the kind of kids he had to deal with. It's still no excuse for what he did, it's just that it's something most of these rampage shooters have in common.
Janet, I wept when I read of him plotting to kill his little brother. I had built up some sympathy for him during the reading of the Manifesto, and when I got down to the last 30 pages I could not reconcile the sympathy I felt with the revulsion I now experienced. The only sadness I saw from him contemplating leaving this world was his last interaction with his grandmother. He does not, to me appear to be capable of love.
DeleteEven if he found a girl, he could not sustain a relationship. He would likely isolate her and become infuriated if she persisted in interacting with others, especially if any of them were males. And if she left him, he would no doubt ramp up his stalking behaviour until he finally achieved that "alpha male" moniker he so wanted, probably by assaulting her. I wondered what would have happened had he hit Soumaya during the incident where she slapped the water glass out of his hand.
Did you read the strange post on Youtube where he seemed to have some bizarre impregnation fantasy going on in his head with blonde white women and a "master race?" And how is it possible that after all these years of therapy, there was no diagnosis (that we know of?)
Elliot's only job was assigned to him by the SB Regional Center, and this facility only deals with people who need introduction into society. So he must have either had a diagnosis or at least a referral from a counselor some sort in order to qualify for a placement.
And I have my doubts that he would be able to consummate any sort of sexual relationship at all. If he could not talk to girls, I can't see how he could engage in sex. This may be why he declined his father's offer to go to Vegas - even he knew it would be impossible. So that further fuelled his frustration and rage.
DeleteHe may have been on SSRI drugs - in his manifesto he declares he will take what's left of his Xanax and Vicodin. If he were on SSRIs, he might have found orgasm quite difficult, but he never seems to suggest any problems in this regard.
Heather: I'm pretty sure that in his parents' second statement to the press, they said that he had been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, but never said what year that diagnosis was made. I don't know if there is one specific drug for treating AS, but the Risperidone that he was prescribed, which he decided was all wrong for him, is said to reduce the irritability associated with AS! He never gave a reason why he thought it was all wrong, but he was probably too ill by then, since he started seeing himself as a vengeful god.
DeleteI've read that he could barely hold a conversation with another male, let alone a female. It's so strange how he claimed in his videos and all through his manifesto how girls only rejected him and he didn't understand why. When the truth is that he didn't give them a chance to reject him because he was too terrified to even say hello. Or him walking around his mother's neighborhood, hoping to find a friend or girlfriend... it was all bullshit! He expected everyone to approach him and when they didn't, it was their fault. Like you, I felt kind of bad for him after reading 3/4 of his manifesto, but then he evolved into a monster who wanted to kill complete strangers for having something he didn't and life wasn't fair. I think I was 10 or 11 when I learned that lesson, but it never entered my mind to kill someone because of it!
Also, I think if the police had bothered to view his videos, before they visited his apartment 3 weeks before his rampage, things would've turned out differently. The videos were the reason his mom and therapist called the police in the first place. You would think one officer could've taken a look at them to see why they were so alarmed. Too bad they didn't also speak with his roommates, just to see if Elliot was really okay. Lots of missed opportunities all around. It seems Elliot was as deceptive as he was smart.
I know, I read that also. It was in the divorce papers too. But the family spokesperson later retracted it. Risperdone is a hard core drug and one of its off-label uses is for AS. It is primarily an anti-psychotic and what Elliot no doubt read was that it would completely flatten out his personality out even more than he already was, and it would zap his sex drive until it basically flatlined. The thing is though, he would only have had to remain on it for a few months and then slowly taper off, because it permanently changes brain chemistry.
DeleteHeather: I didn't know that about Risperidone. No doubt that Elliot qualified for some hardcore anti-psychotics and maybe even having his brain chemistry changed around permanently, but I can see why anyone wouldn't want to take a drug like that - yikes!
DeleteWould it also zap his sex drive permanently or is that a temporary side effect? Elliot constantly said that puberty ruined his life and that was the beginning of the end for him. You would think if he could "reverse" some of the symptoms that made life so miserable for him... he would at least try a drug to flatten-out his sex drive, if only for some relief. Deep down I think he knew he'd never have sex, if he couldn't even have a conversation with a female, but I guess like all of us, he held onto hope for as long as he could. He really was his own worst enemy.
Janet, I believe risperidone is quite effective at preventing relapse in autistic teens on a permanent basis, but there is only one long term placebo-controlled study, so it definitely requires more testing, especially since its action on reducing aggression and tantrums in the autistic is off-label. Even after discontinued it does have durability in patients. I don't believe it will suppress the libido or cause impotence permanently, but it also can cause CNS problems - involuntary or uncontrolled movements.and increased risk of seizures. Of course, to someone who is young and not impotent and not having any seizures, one can see why he would not be too enthused about this drug.
DeleteI would suspect a young person would not want to be impotent at any cost - I think men see this certainly as a sign of their masculinity, and to be without a libido would perhaps mean to Elliot that he really was a eunuch now in every respect.
I also found an article about Elliot on the Encyclopedia Dramatica. This site, while having done some decent research on Elliot's consistent trolling and presence on internet forums, is generally derogatory in nature and some of the comments by the authors are cringeworthy. Take a look - they have found Elliot on various dating sites with profiles that seem to be slightly embellished. Very revealing - he also created fake accounts to flatter himself, which makes me sad for him all over again.
This huge digital footprint he left really gets into your head over time and it's all very troubling..........https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Elliot_Rodger
Heather: Wow. I took a look at that website - all of it, and any sympathy I had for ER is completely gone. At PUAHate, he was turning into a little Hitler, telling other members to let their hate grow because hate was power. And they were listening to him and seeing him as their HERO. So glad that site was taken down, though I'm sure they've re-congregated to sluthate.com. This crap has to stop!
DeleteAt the bodybuilding site, it didn't take them long to figure him out, and some of their responses to him were so accurate! Elliot actually thought that if they saw one of his videos, then they would understand him. Instead, they called him Patrick Bateman and told him just how creepy he was being.
He supposedly went there for help/advice, but whenever someone gave him feedback... he just turned into a typical troll and told them they were all jealous of his exotic beauty. I think he was just so beyond help by then. Throughout his mani and web comments, the two words that continually pop-up are "I deserve..." because I'm "more white" or have a "better car", etc. Then, when the others would point out that it has to do with personality... there would be no response from Elliot.
Elliot chose to marinate in his hatred and let the rage build-up, while hiding it all from his family and therapists. I don't know when he started to write his manifesto, and I know a lot of it is BS from Elliot's POV, but in reading it - the first 2/3rds anyway... would you think it was written by a severely mentally ill person? According to one of his friends' mother, she noticed a big difference in Elliot in the last year. For a kid that wouldn't look you in the eye or talk... what could possibly be a "big difference"?
There are still so many unanswered questions about Elliot that we'll probably never get the answers to. But, just from reading his posts/comments from the site you linked to, I think Elliot was evil down to his bone marrow.
I don't know what the "big difference" could have been, because I don't think I read that comment - was it in the Manifesto? Maybe he was getting bolder? Angrier? I think that some of Elliot's social withdrawal may have been dying as he himself got closer to the date of his death.
DeleteOn some small level I still feel a degree of pity for him. In high school he was crying almost every day, sometimes for long periods of time. To me this suggests PTSD, even if most of it was internally caused.
The manifesto is pretty lucid, although sometimes repetitive, and I think some of it is taken from his diary that he did keep for years before going utterly off the rails. The last 30 pages are the hardest to get through because he is so repetitive - writing continually on his OCD obsessions and irrational thinking makes it pretty hard to get through. Not to mention his crazy ideation about starving women while presiding over their deaths in a tower (classic WoW gameplay scenario), killing people and leaving rivers of skulls and blood (quote from Game of Thrones) and killing a 9 year-old. Some of his PUAHate posts were quotes I recognized from Star Wars (made by Darth Sidious).
It's truly a weird sensation when you recognize from where a spree-killer is drawing their influences...
I myself would like to know what drugs were in his system at death and whether he was abusing them. I would also like to see one of his friends come forward and explain exactly in what way his speech was different in the videos. Elliot obviously DID talk in more than a few words at a time, because otherwise how would so many people know about his ideas about women? Dr. Drew interviewed someone who knew him (available on YouTube), and he tried to counsel Elliot maybe 10 times, many times Elliot had tears in his eyes. So he did talk under certain circumstances........ This particular individual also said he knew immediately that Elliot was the perpetrator of the shootings as soon as he heard the news on TV.
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DeleteIn response to Janet, I do not think this forum is nasty and people are not attacking each other.
ReplyDelete"It's extremely offensive to those of us who are agnostic or atheist, and don't feel as you do about organized religion. I certainly don't feel as if I'm wandering the earth lost without any navigation skills! I have a brain and a heart... and I don't need to believe in a mythical heaven or hell to do what's right in life. I know you probably didn't intend to come off that way, so no hard feelings."
However the point is like taxes per W. Churchill make us civilized, religion if followed properly provides a road map. Sure religion & religious people have done harm over the ages and there are many good agnostics, atheists, but I find it difficult that yo'll can take the short road to Nirvana.
We can try to be arm chair therapists here but it is above our pay grade + we have so few facts. I am googling for updates; there are none as story per media is dead.
I would like more transparency regarding gun purchases, even limits for people with mental issues. Also I think it is hard for parents to take care of adult children as they are considered adults.
It is a shame that he was given a stipend, rent + while he stopped taking classes from Feb 2013? 12?? I would have wanted to get his transcripts!!
Life is not a video game; read about the innocent MH17 victims; War is hell!!
No wars were ever advanced on behalf of atheism.
DeleteIn response to Janet, I do not think this forum is nasty and people are not attacking each other.
DeleteGARTH: Where did I say either of those things?! I was responding to another commenter, who couldn't understand how anyone could make it through life without religion - that those people are "lost" without it. I don't feel that way and found it offensive... so I tried to explain that nicely.
Please explain this: "Sure religion & religious people have done harm over the ages and there are many good agnostics, atheists, but I find it difficult that yo'll can take the short road to Nirvana." o,O
To say religions have done harm over the ages... is almost laughable it's such an understatement! And what makes you think non-religious people have found a "shortcut" to nirvana?! Why is it that I don't care who or what you worship, as long as you don't demand I worship the same... but it seems to bother religious people a LOT when I don't? Mind your own business for a change. Maybe you'll find nirvana. *smh*
hello
ReplyDeleteOrg. LOL He could not say hello; he was 100% self centered and EXPECTED women to fall into his arms; and having, getting sex, even a french kiss was his right? I would like to read interviews of the kids he went to school with; just one in NY has commented that I know of.
ReplyDeleteIts not an OCD thing, the same clothes. Done it myself. Its the Aspie logic thing again. If an outfit looks better than your other outfits, you keep wearing it. You have to learn that actually, it's better to look varied, even if the other outfits arent so nice.
ReplyDeleteExcellent ! This is a nice post. You know exactly what you're talking about, exactly where other people are coming .Thanks
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